HELP!!!!!
WHO THE HEC DO I VOTE FOR?????????
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Just The Five of Us
- Tiffany
- I am from Las Vegas,NV. I am a mom of Paige, Ty and Stockton. I met my sweetheart through a good friend of mine Jennie Johnson in 2003. Terry is from Kennewick, WA and was going to school in Provo,UT. We talked on the phone for 2 weeks before we even met! Our first phone call we talked for 5 hours! Terry says he just listened all that time.....yeah right! I totally loved talking to him. I pretty much knew he was different then all the others and when I first saw him.....that was it for me! We dated and did the long distance thing for 3 months and then got engaged on Christmas morning. We were married Aug. of '04 in the Columbia River Temple. He is everything I hoped for and more.We have ALOT of fun together. I love being a mom! People keep saying to enjoy this time in my life and I really try so hard but time keeps ticking away. I realized no matter how many hugs,kisses and fun times you have, you still wish you had more!I really love my little family and I am so excited for the road ahead!
56 comments:
Yeah, I want to know the same thing. I am just not going to vote...kidding, well kind of!
Yeah, I know! I'm not a fan of McCain though, so I might be leaning a little toward Obama. I'm ready for a swift change.
Don't let the anger get to you.. Like I've been saying on Everyone's blog....take deep breaths and just wait...All of us have been feeling the same but remember what Romney said in his suspension speech and the reason he stepped aside (So sad/mad/confused) that he was doing it for our party so we don't get Hilary or Obama in the white house.
do i even need to tell you my opinion? :) You read my blog, you know I LOVE Obama!!!! He is the BEST by far, and now that the race has been cut down to the final candidates, I think it is even more clear that he is the BEST! This country needs a huge tune up and he's got the best plans to do it. this is a little late, I heard he got the WA delegates anyway, but I just have to take any chance I get to say, HE IS AWESOME!!!! Sooooooo much better than McCain, and the Repubs even know it! funny.
That's great you know Obama's plan because nobody else in the country, including his wife, knows what his plans for the U.S. are. All we know is he is going to unite, whatever that means. We has not laid out a plan at all. If you could give me some insight on what Obama would do for the U.S. besides abandon Iraq and raise taxes let me know. Obama does not have a plan at all. A vote for Obama is a vote for money out of our pockets. Have fun with that.
At least McCain will not repeal the Bush tax cuts. That is the onl thing I care about...oh and stopping universal health care which the Dems stand for.
Just wait until the debates to pick your candidate.
Oh, kisses to you Tay!!!
Tiff, don't ask ANYONE who you should vote for!!! YOU need to decide. Don't let us help you, or BOB (sorry Leslie ;)). All I know is that I WILL NOT vote for any person OR any party (hint hint) that supports abortion or same sex marriage.
I am feeling like Tara right now, but we have 8+ months to decide what we should do. I know I have an obligation to vote, but am struggling with what we are left with.
You don't even need to have the same political views as Terry (although it helps when you and your spouse are on the same page).
If however you DO want my opinion, I strongly disagree with universal health care! I totally agree with staying in Iraq until the job is done and keeping Bush's tax cuts.
Ouch! Thanks Tiff...see what you started!
AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! It's so hard to know the TRUTH and to understand what the hec to do! Terry and I are just trying to figure out if voting is even enough? I guess it's more studing we have to do,right?
I really do appreciate all of you help!Really I do! It's nice to know my friends know more about this stuff then me! I need to get better! Love you guys!
Sadly, here is what is going to happen, but it should work out alright. Either Obama or Hillary will win the presidency, cuz McCain doesn't stand a chance against either of them for obvious reasons. The country will go through four bad years and cry out for someone. Now that Mitt has some attention, he will start off the next campaign with a lot more steam and Washington will REALLY be broken. People will flock to him and we will have someone in office that actually stands for something and that really does want to make a change, not just say what people want to hear to get elected. Romney for pres in 2012! Just watch.
Oh yeah, this is Terry, not Tiff.
Go Terry! I hope that is what happens. I just hope we survive the next four years!
Terry- you're cracking me up, I hope it works out that way for ya! I just hope after the four "bad" years you'll see some good come from them too.
Other commentors that I have obviously struck a fire under, know that it is easy to get angry at someone you don't know, but I am a very nice person and have had enough political debates to last a life time, I was just giving Tiffany an answer to her question not starting a war of words. I have lived with Bush for 8 years and I am still alive, although I swore I would die living under his Presidency. So I know how you feel fearing a Democrat in office, but I promise you'll live.
Since you asked....
Obama's plans, just becuase his plans aren't what you'd like to see happen, doesn't mean he doesn't have them.
I am against abortion and same sex marriage, but those are not issues that determine a President. Bush is prolife, but you haven't seen a change in law have you? He elected a couple conservative judges that have not had a case before them to rule one way or the other, those issues are nonissues in this election.
For me the "war" is a huge waste. I can't understand Republicans who are usually so tight with this country's money, why they want to keep throwing it away on a people that are never going to embrace democracy. We had no business starting this, we have tried to end it, the surge worked, but the Iraq government still refuses to take controll, that was the whole point of the surge. The terrorists are in Afghanistan, that is where our miltary should be. Our borders are not protected, that is where OUR military should be. Policing Iraq's civil war is never goign to end, it is not our responcibility to find solutions. There are wars and genocides happening all over the world, it is illogical to think we are helping ANY situation by staying in Iraq.
I know you don't agree, thats the beauty of having a two political party government, soemtime you win sometimes you loose, but it all works out in the end.
Good Luck Tiff- sorry for using this as a platform, but I will stand up for what I believe. I know I didn't rebut all that was stated, but if you really want to know a candidates TRUE stance I suggest going to their website. Obama's PLANS are all there very very well explained.
Tiff you are a babe! Look at your cute little family! Miss you girly!
Alright Chanel, I do hope that Obama wins over Hillary. I would consider that a small victory. Between McCain and 'Bama, I could care less. The thing that I hate is people who get up there and say what they 'think' people want to hear. Hillary is the worst, hands down. I don't think anyone would dare argue that. Even your man 'bama, however, is still trying to say whatever will get him elected. Case in point-he has been saying he would have the troops out of Iraq and home before the end of '09, since that is what people want to hear. I believe it was on 60 minutes just the other day he was asked point blank, "will you have the troops home by the end of '09?"
His response-Yes, er, well, I'm not closing the door, obviously (this is not verbatim)if situations arose, I would leave the door open...
Even Mr. 'bama doesn't believe the troops are going to be home that soon and now that he is closer to the king of the mountain, he can't make statements like he previously had, because if he does win, which is quite likely, statements like that would be suicide. All three candidates are POLITICIANS and that is not what we need.
And I don't agree gay marriage and abortion are non issues. They may not be the most talked about right now, but they are in no way 'non issues.' With every appointment to the Supreme Court, THOSE are the main issues, hands down. No one care about what a judge believes about Iraq or our borders, and those judges have far more influence over our country than any president. Those are and will be the main issues for years to come and depending on how many it looks like the current pres gets to appoint will determine how much press time those topics get.
That last comment was Terry if anyone didn't know!
I knew both of those were you Terry!
Chanel, I agree that one of the things that makes this country wonderful is the opportunity to agree to disagree. We all have a voice. No anger here. I appreciate your opinion.
I think it is great that you don't support abortion or same sex marriage, but the person that you are supporting DOES!!! Sooooo, that means, in a sense, you do too. Sorry. That is the reality of SUPPORTING someone and their platforms. Ok, I'll be done. See you on Nichole's page ;)
I think Terry is right. I think that we will just have to survive the next 4 years and after people realize that they voted WRONG, Romney will have a good chance. Does that scare anyone else? Sounds like a sign of the last days to me.
First off, I want to say that I think it's so great that you ALL have such great knowledge of this whole prez thing! I am so flighty when it comes to this stuff which is why I have such a hard time understanding it! Thanks for being so honest and I am so jealous you all have such strong views...I wish I did! My goal is to learn and be more supportive about this election. I really don't want to vote because I have NO idea who to go for! Seriously! Is there one REAL,TRUE,HONEST and NOBLE person to vote for? That's why it's so hard for me. Hopefully I'll learn more and have an answer soon! Thanks again! You guys are so great for sharing!
Tiff the sad thing about it is that there is not and probably will never be a nominee that you are 100% behind. I don't claim to agree with everything any of them completely stand for. That is why you have to find the one that is closest to what you believe and who protects and stands for what you do. Start studying girl (it is an easy test though ;) JUST MY OPINION YA'LL!
I wrote such a great response and it wouldn't publish- do you have democrat blocker? hahaha!!
I guess b/c I don't have the energy to rewrite, I just want to say Obama is REAL, I can't vouch for noble, but I do believe he is sincere, this isn't a life long ambition, or even a career, politicis is something he believed in because like you he wanted to do something bigger than just vote. I don't think he even imagined ever running for President. He is very good at working bipartisian, so many of the bills he has worked on are with Republicans- that's what uniting means by the way. He sees a better America, he's an optomist.
And I strongly disagree he says what "everyone" wants to hear, every commentor here obviously isn't hearing what they want. He is incredibly thoughtful, he wants to do what is right, and for him that is bringing our troops home in 16 months. I am sure he understand it might not be that cut and dry so he is willing to "leave the door open" in case of unforseen circumstances. That is the brilliance I love about him. He is willing to work at our problems, it is not his way or the highway. He considers all points of view, not just democrats, he doesn't have lobbiest or "business men" in his back pocket, he is just trying to do what is right.
And as for my nonissues..well as I have said I do not support abortion, I would NEVER have one, I would NEVER teach my daughters it was even a consideration, I would never support/encourage/condone a friend or family member having one, but that is where my area of influnce and responsibility ends and where a right to choose begins. I see it very much as free agency. It was Satan's plan to take choices away. Abortions will happen regardless of the law, and those actions are between the offenders and God. People choose everyday to end a life by using a gun, yet we don't want restrictive gun laws. So I do support a right to choose, I will just support the choice of choosing life, much like I am sure the Lord would hope we all choose the right.
And as for gay marriage, Although Barack Obama has said that he supports civil unions, he is against gay marriage. In an interview with the Chicago Daily Tribune, Obama said, "I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman."
But again I say these are not issues to use as your base for voting, because Bush has set up a very conservative Supreme Court and your views will be upheld regardless. In 8 years an evangelical President was not able to do a thing about abortion or gay marriage, in the next 4 a Democratic President won't either, that is why they are nonissues.
Thanks for this opportunity to share, I really appreciate the tones that have been expressed in the second have of these comments, its refreshing to discuss and not argue.
Ok, so I tried getting to JR & Jamies blog from your page and it says its not valid... Any ideas? Have you actually seen it.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY! by the way! I hope you have a great day! You are a great sista in law to have. I am so glad Terry married you! (Especially over that one girl... JK! I don't think there were really any other girls.) You are such a great addition to our family! I hope you like being a part of us as much as we like you being a part of us!
Ok- the whole voting thing? UGH! I think we are screwed any way this time around. It's like lose, lose, lose. Maybe in 4 years...
All I know is I feel like our votes don't matter. I hate how the system is set up. Every vote should count. Can we do away with the whole electoral vote thing. We get ambushed here in Wa because Seattle is so much larger then the rest of the state. So whats the point?
Although I gotta say, we do not need to raise taxes or screw the health care system up even more than it already is. Which will happen with a democratic president. Maybe I should run! I've got some great ideas. OR better yet... How about Terry... What you only need hundreds of millions of dollars right? He could do it!
Chanel- I don't think you know Taylor, he is very passionate about politics (read his blog) but he is also very humorous. Don't take anything from him too serious.
Tiffany- I think that it is SO important that you go to each of the candidates websites and read their platforms. Don't let anybody sway your decision. It is a personal decision and an important one.
I don't think that many Americans understand the importance of voting in every election.
Of course, as you know, I am the one Hillary supporter that comments on your blog. I am pro-choice, pro-universal health care, think we need to get the heck out of Iraq, 86 No Child Left Behind and the voucher system and bring tax cuts to the middle and "lower" class.
I agree that Obama needs to clarify what his actual plans are.
It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
Good for you for caring!
I don't think the electoral college is AS bad as a lot of people think. I agree that it's time has passed, but it served it's purpose.
One more reason to vote in your local elections!
I personally believe that EVERY issue should to be used in choosing our president. For us Mormons out here, he church does not tell us what to do but they "Reserve the right as an institution to address, in a nonpartisan way, issues that it believes have significant community or moral consequences or that directly affect the interests of the Church." Abortion and gay marriage are two I can think of. If they think they are important issues, then so do I.
I also think "everyone" does want to hear that troops will be home in 16 months "leaving the door open" of course. Will never happen...we still have troops in Germany.
Judges retiring in the next 4 years... Need a republican president to appoint concervative ones.
I say all issues are important. AGAIN JUST MY OPINION.
Ok... so I just have one more thing to say about the whole election thing. I just read Obama has spent 1.4 million dollars recently in tv advertising. Not just to point out Obama, but all of them. Imagine how much money they spend on these campaigns... What else could be done with that money... Can you say tax cuts? Education? Better paid school teachers? Security? Health care! Blah blah blah... I know its Utopia thinking but it makes me crazy how much money goes into these elections. And you know who puts up the money... so basically the white house is being run by those outside groups who put up the money so their person gets elected. Doesn't anyone else think that is just wrong! We could feed thousands of starving children and change the world with some of that money... Oh well... thats my last two cents... and really I'm just raving, and probably making no sense anyway.... :)
Why the Electoral College is the right system: The three branches of government are to represent the citizens of the United States of America, not the voters of the United States of America. There are millions of people who cannot vote, namely children, handicapped and the elderly. Should those who cannot vote be unrepresented? What the electoral college does is ensures those who cannot vote are accounted for.
Example - Here are the totals from the 200 Presidential Election
Popular Vote: Bush 50.5 million
Gore 51 million
Counties Won: Bush 2,434
Gore 677
Population of Counties Won:
Bush 143 million
Gore 127 million
Square miles of counties won:
Bush 2,427,000
Gore 580,000
Violent crimes per 100,000 in counties won:
Bush 2.1
Gore 13.2
The electoral college makes sure those who cannot or do not vote are accoounted for.
That last little part about violent crimes is irrelvant, I just thought it was funny.
He has wanted to be president for a long time. I heard him say that on Saturday. He knew in 2004 when he lobbyied to speak at the DNC convention and was praised for it that 2008 would be his year.
He does have ideas but he does not have plans for those ideas. Saying We need to decrease the tax burden on the middle class is one thing, but telling me how he is going to do it is another. Telling me he is going to bring the troops home is an idea. Why he is going to bring them home and how he is going to do it is another.
Obama does not have a clear concience what he is going to do or how he is going to do it. At leasy Hillary has the balls, sorry ovaries, to tell us how she is going to fund things. Even if those programs are asenine or she admits the country can't afford them. At least she has plans
My last piece...And I also appreciate the discussions, not the bashing or arguing. I actually kind of want to meet you now Chanel. Maybe someday. Going all the way back to the way this country was founded, anyone remember why our original 13 colonies wanted away from England? THE GOVERNMENT!!! It was too big. Our forefathers built this country on the idea of little to no government intervention, only when completely necessary. Our militia was completely necessary. That was really the only thing they planned on. Everything else since then makes us more and more like the country that they fled from. Universal healthcare?!!! At least Romney's plan and what he successfully implemented in Massachusettes was through private enterprise, not the government. Have we not seen that the government cannot take care of everyone? Look at our welfare program-out of control. Our forefathers never planned on supporting people who were too lazy to work. That was first to go to family, then church, then community and up, not from the top down. This is the message of the D's-BIGGER GOVERNMENT. I just don't know how anyone believes that is the answer. The government CAN'T do it. We saw that after Katrina. They just can't. And I don't use that word lightly, cuz its a swear word in our house.
One last bit for you Chanel, cuz I'm curious. The church spends MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of dollars fighting same sex marriage. I'm not sure if abortion falls in there, but I would assume so, I would have to do more research. I distinctly remember our wonderful late Prophet talking about these evils, but if we all take the approach of 'its out of my hands' we lose. I'm not coming down on anyone here, but am surprised that anyone would support someone who would work or allow the core values of our faith to be tampered with, things that leaders spend so much time and energy trying to preserve. If they believed it was the way of the world and things were going to happen regardless, we could throw about 1/2 of the ensign away each month and save a lot of people a lot of time.
To sum up Tiff's question, good luck! Peace out. I'm a little embarrassed at how much I've enjoyed 'blogging,' I am in now way shape or form a blogger.
Terry- Im so coming to visit you guys someday!!! We LOVE the NW, so we're there! :) I love your core Republican beliefs and it is heart of why we differ adn I so respect that. Funny, I do agree the government can not take care of everyone, nor do I think they should, but those who can not take care of themselves and unfortunately there are quite a few in this blessed country do need help. Obama's ideas ARE laid out VERY CLEARLY on his website, WHY WON'T YOU PEOPLE GO THERE AND READ????????
HE DOES NOT WANT UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE!!! He wants to make available a plan to all Americans (not forcing them in to it) to buy affordable health coverage that is similar to the plan available to members of Congress.
Also the Obama PLAN will create a National Health Insurance Exchange to help individuals who wish to purchase a private insurance plan.
ALL THESE PLANS are described in MORE DETAIL ON HIS WEBSITE. PUH-LEEEEEASE go and read it.
Also I understand the church's role in fighting the same sex marriage thing, I support them and that. NONE of the candidates support an amendment protecting marriage THUS it is a nonissue in THIS election. And I do not believe abortion is fought with the church's money, there stance is clear but I don't recall so much as 1 abortion article in the Ensign, there may possibly be, but I really feel they made there stance and are about teaching what is RIGHT not changing laws.
ROSE FAMILY- YOU ARE SOOOOO RIGHT!!!!!!!!
TAYLOR- since 2004, a whole whopping 4, more realistically 3 years ago??? Not really a big plan I still think. GO TO OBAMA'S SITE and then explain why he has no plans. Maybe I am just dumb and believe what he is saying, they are not just ideas.
And you're right about one thing, Hillary definitly has balls. I don't get how you respect her "never in a million years is that going to happen "plans" as opposed to Obama's this could really work "ideas"??
For this mormon out here, I am sorry I keep dragging this out. everytime I go to read I promise I won't comment again, I suck. Thanks for the convo!
1 - His healthcare plan is a mandate. Please Read carefully!!!!Under his plan all children must be covered, and he will mandate the employer to pay for the government insurance plan for all of its employees. I have been to his site and I have studied it. The reason his plan works for Federal employees is that U.S. Gov't is their employer and the U.S. tax dollars cover it. We do not have enough money to cover every employee in the U.S.. Employers will be laying off people to be able to pay the insurance...which will be mandated.
2 - This is not a plan...I want Obama to tell the public HOW he is going to fund it. Not what he is going to do. In his words..."I will set up a National Insurance Fund" Where is that money coming from to fund it? It sounds like a 5th grade candidate for President at an elementary school promising ice cream for lunch and limos instead of buses. They may be "great" ideas but I want to know if it can be funded, and if so how it will be funded. Anyone can construct a great plan, but finding the money to pay for it is a different story.
3-Don't tell me Obama doesn't have favors to repay to lobbyists and political figures. Do you think $32M/month is coming from the grassroots college students? All politicians have financial backers who want favors...that is the nature of the beast. To fix the problem, do not let campaign contributions count as tax deductions. That may steer some of that money to real charities that need it.
4-I respect Hillary because at least she is telling the truth. Obama's ideas are just that...ideas. There is no financial backing to anything he says. As I said before, anyone can throw out good ideas...utopia was a city full of great ideas but it is a fictional place. All I want Obama to tell me is the truth, and that is...(1) the way he is going to fund his ideas is by increasing taxes. It is much to early for him to come out and say it. He is holding his breath until he is forced to recognize it; and (2) He is going to enlarge government beyond belief to oversee his plans. Take notice of the plans on his website. The vast majority involve a govenment agency which will oversee healthcare, education, innovention...the little left of the free market society we have will be choked out. Terry is right, the founding fathers set up a government which would get out of the way of its citizens not govern them. That is why they added the caveat of "by the people" after Government. The executive and legislative branches have ennumerated powers written in the constitution. These were the only 17 powers given to these brances. The most important is to make new laws, power to tax, mint money, protect the borders, protect from criminal liability, and declare war. I know the forefathers did not see a day of a beaurocracy where the U.S. Gov't would get in the way of the free market, by forcing employers to pay for insurance. Please follw the forefather's dreams and defer your ideas to the states. It is their job to oversee education and healthcare...NOT the national government.
Don't get me wrong, many in the republican party are pissing me off. They have steered away from true conservatism and more resemble the liberals from the 1960's sans the racism. The govenment has grown well beyond its true capacity. Many federal programs and agencies need to be abolished. Obama is for expansion...which drains even more tax revenues from the coffers. Not to mention causes further damage to the already broken social security system; federal employess do not pay it, but reaps the benefits from it after retirement.
ALL I WANT TO KNOW IS HOW HE IS GOING TO FUND HIS PROGRAMS!!!! I HAVE A GOOD IDEA HOW HE WILL DO IT, I HOPE HE CAN PROVE ME WRONG.
I may be done typing but I will not promise I won't comment again later. (said as Obama)
Happy B-Day Tiff, I love you Terry...you kick A.
ok, I just had to jump on the political band wagon and make a comment...it sucks Mitt dropped out of the race. and now we are stuck with basically 3 crappy candidates to choose from. What do you do? Mccain is just as liberal as Clinton and Obama. Do we want him as president and therefore, automatically our republican nominee again in 2012? If he wins, no other republican will be able to run in 2012. So, my choice is either clinton or obama...I agree with a lot of what taylor is saying. Obama has ideas, but they are unrealistic. His health care idea...my husband is a business owner and I can say there is NO way we could pay for healthcare for all our employees and pay all our bills. We hope to be able to one day, but right now, we just couldn't. It would ruin us. Universal healthcare will ruin our country and our healthcare system I can promise you all that. My mom is from Canada where they have socialized medicine, I can fill you in on what healthcare is like there...Just ask.
Well, I'm just rambling but politics can be confusing. So just be informed.
Tara...MCcain is nowhere near as liberal as Obama and Hill.
Lets all hold our breath until the debates. Obama may suprise me and acknowledge how he plans on funding his ideas. McCain may pick a great VP and reveal who some of his cabinet members might be...He will have to do this to win back the righties like myself.
I have not made up my mind yet...I am close because of the research of each candidate, but there is still tons of time until Nov..
Tay- thanks for the electoral college info., we actually agree on something! :) I will admit that I didn't really understand it until I was teaching 11th graders about it. We should all be more educated when it comes to something so important.
Hi Tara- (Cameron's wife?)
I have to respectfully disagree that McCain is as liberal as Clinton and Obama. He may be learning towards the left side, but not even close to the Dems.
(I wrote that before I read Taylor's comment, we agree again, go figure!)
I am so happy to see that so many of you are so passionate about politics! It seems like so many American's can care less.
Now that Mitt is gone, I am sensing that a lot of the LDS votes are going to Obama. Am I right?
Terry, you better watch out! You will be addicted to blogging before you know it!
Let me just say that I am impressed with the civility of all of this. Great job guys. Very informative. This has been great reading. Tay, I love the comments on your blog too.
Hillary does have plans, but she received them from the devil himself! Hahahaha! Did I just contradict my first statement? Hahahahaaha! I just said that for you Nichole! :)
I agree with you Kj, this has been the most civilized political discussion yet. It is all because of Tiffany and our respect to her.
I am not sure how to respond to the Hillary comment without offending anyone so I will not say anything! :)
It really doesn't bother me! What bothers me is when people DO NOT care!
This is SO fun! I truely am so happy I get to hear from all my close friends! Thanks so much! Stayed tuned for Terry's blogsite!!!! ;)
I know this is off the subject but I was curious so I checked it out. On lds.org I did a search in the church magazines for abortion and it brought up 255 articles that address or mention abortion.
Ya Terry, watch out. Soon you'll be addicted. And Tiff, can I just say I love coming to your blog not only to see your cute family, but to read all the interesting comments. Always so much info...I love it!!
Nichole, you wouldn't offend anyone. Not that I am encouraging you to say what you were thinking. I think when you believe what you believe strongly, it is hard to be offended. That is why you believe what you do and why we believe what we believe. We still manage to stay friends and respect each others' differences!
Just curious, is Billy very political?
Something has happened which I think warrants this comment, Eliza,I have not enjoyed your comments, I have wanted to dismiss your comments, but I had to take my own advise and read what you put out there. I have a very strong testimony of this gospel, I respect and believe what my leaders preach and teach. I went to LDS.ORG and read through some articles (thank you, for the "challenge" I wouldn't have doen this otherwise)I was fully ready to report none of the articles talk about political decisions being based on my "nonissues", BUT, one article has hit me and I want to quote one part of it that has had enormous impact....
If we say we are anti-abortion in our personal life but pro-choice in public policy, we are saying that we will not use our influence to establish public policies that encourage righteous choices on matters God’s servants have defined as serious sins. I urge Latter-day Saints who have taken that position to ask themselves which other grievous sins should be decriminalized or smiled on by the law due to this theory that persons should not be hampered in their choices. Should we decriminalize or lighten the legal consequences of child abuse? of cruelty to animals? of pollution? of fraud? of fathers who choose to abandon their families for greater freedom or convenience?
Similarly, some reach the pro-choice position by saying we should not legislate morality. Those who take this position should realize that the law of crimes legislates nothing but morality. Should we repeal all laws with a moral basis so that our government will not punish any choices some persons consider immoral? Such an action would wipe out virtually all of the laws against crimes.
I guess the Lord's servants knew best how to put it in perspective for me. I do not think the laws should be lightened on any of the things he asked me to question, in fact I wish some of those laws were tougher.
You have given me a whole new issue to wrestle with, and I must admit I was much happier before thinking of htis. I was very content to be "anti-abortion in my personal life but pro-choice in public policy".
I think I have to hash this out with my Bishop a bit, I am pretty sure because of the three choices, Obama is still my man, but I thank you Eliza for your persistance and just want everyoen to knwo, sometimes YOU can make a difference, especially when its done with conviction and not just an "im right your wrong attitude".
nice job y'all!
It looks like I'm a day late on the action. I'm a Mitt man myself. I'm very much acquainted with his platform and I can tell you he's worth the wait (2012). 1976 is turning out to be a lot like 2008 when Reagan lost the nomination to Gerald Ford, the more moderate candidate. In the 4 years that followed he toured the country solidifying his conservative credentials. By next time around he had his base of support ready to sweep the nomination and general election. I, like many of you, checked Mitt out first because he's a good member of the church. What came soon after was the pleasant surprise that he is in my opinion one of the most qualified presidential candidates our nation has ever seen. I'm sad he is out this go-around but I'm inclined to think that Barack Obama, if nominated, will beat any of our candidates in this election cycle. People like Obama because he is articulate and charismatic. They are also enjoying the drama of potentially electing the first black or female president. With all due respect to you Obama fans, if he were running on his agenda for where he plans to take America a lot of his supporters would be thinking twice. He is wise to stick to the "Change" and "Yes we can" platitudes because most people don't want to get confused with all the details of an agenda. I do think that if nominated he will clean McCain's clock drawing the age and charisma distinctions which are huge. He will push socialized medicine on a recession economy and punish the ultra-wealthy (75K a year and up) leaving the country in a right mess for Mitt to clean up in 4 years. By then the novelty of electing a black president will be the past and people will wake up to the gravity of our situation.
OK, ANDREA, if you are going to comment, you also need to put up a new post! I am hungry for one! At least give us a new pic of that handsome boy of yours!!!
Chanel, I think that all of us can be unfounded in some of our beliefs and comments. I am definitely who has benefited from all of this conversation. I appreciate all comments that have been made here. There is something very empowering reading all these comments from strong women. This country is amazing. Don't think that anyone has ever questioned what kind of testimony you have. That too, is just as personal as anyone's political views. I totally believe you are a strong member of the church. I also agree that it seems that no one says it better than the leaders of our church. Anything they say is done with conviction and, most importantly, love.
This is fun!!! Too bad this isn't a live forum!
Crap, I'm getting Annie in trouble. This is her political hubbie, Makeli. Along with KJ, support of a candidate by no ways is a commentary on one's testimony. On a side note, Mitt is endorsing McCain in 10 minutes :(
Chanel, I really don't even know what to say, you made me cry. I would like to say I'm sorry if anything I said was offensive. I never questioned your testimony. Nor do I think that who you support damages it. I'm stubborn and sometimes don't know when to quit. I just couldn't when it was something I so strongly believed in. I'm sure I've embarrassed my brother (Taylor) by not being smart enough on other issues that I have to be strong on the ones I do know. ACTUALLY you know who is to blame for my persistence is Elder Ballard. He recently urged us to use the Internet — including blogs and other forms of “new media” — to contribute to a national conversation about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Okay I might have taken his suggestion a little far. :)
All in all, I too thank everyone for their input and encouragement to go out and really study what every candidate has to offer, no matter how hard it maybe be for me to swallow. I too have been the beneficiary of this conversation. (Thanks Tay for explaining the Electoral College to me). Thanks for acknowledging my persistence and conviction on these issues, for that truly is a compliment.
ps. Dallin H. Oaks is one of my personal faves! ;)
1. Wow, Tiffany! So many comments for such a short post!
2. If over $75k is "ultra-wealthy" than why don't I have very much money? ;)
3. Kj- Billy is moderately political. His union asked him to caucus for Edwards, which he considered. I am happy to say that he did the research and watched the debates and decided that Edwards was not his guy. To my surprise he went to the caucus and to my shock he voted for Hillary. When we left I thanked him for going with me and he replied, "I didn't do it for you". Believe it or not, I loved that response. He is a union guy so he is a registered Democrat. But, he is not nearly as liberal as I am and would probably vote for a Republican if he really liked one. He rarely will discuss politics unless it it with family. He mostly just says that he doesn't really know enough about all of it. But, other than maybe Taylor, who does?! I spent 4 years in college learning about this stuff and I still feel so ignorant!
4. I love all of my LDS friends and family. But, I know that I could never be Mormon with my views on abortion and gay marriage! They would turn me around at the front door!
Thanks Tiff for such a fun post! I look forward to logging on and reading all of the comments!
Be careful...as someone great once said...."Never say Never" (Fievel Mousekewitz - An American Tail)
BTW American Tail was written and directed by none other than Don Bluthe...a mormon.
Eliza - You are not dumb. Everyone has issues which mean the most to them. Your immortant issues just happen to be different than others. There is nothing wrong with that.
Nichole - I too wondered about the "ultra-wealthy" being $75K+. I better be ultra-wealthy coming out of law school or this will have been a huge waste of time and money...I hope that was hyperbole or sarcasm. Actually $75K would be classified as below upper middle class. That is why the alternative minimum tax (AMT) is such a huge issue right now. See my Tax post for more information. Matt and I discuss a little bit about what the congress should do with the AMT.
Nichole P.S. - Did you think about what I said by paying more in taxes and checking the box not to get your rebate?
Nichole P.P.S - Billy is honestly one of my favorite people from high school. He was always such a nice person. Good for him for getting involved and good for him for not voting Edwards. BTW, Don't get me started on Unions!!! If I did talk about them they way i feel, my Grandpa would roll over in his grave...or throw a heaven rock down from heaven.
I have been so worried about what I posted, so glad it came out right. You guys are all so nice, I never thought you were bashing my testimony, I just felt I needed to add that.
I have been joking all day since my "epiphany"- thank goodness Mitt dropped out, I might have had to vote for him. ;) WAY WAY WAAY too bad he's backing McCain!
Ok Tiffany- post now..cute V-day picts..something, although 50+ comments is pretty cool!
Taylor- Billy was one of my favorite people from high school too! :) And, he makes really cute babies!
I commented on your blog about the tax rebate.
If you get started on the unions be aware! My dad might throw a rock at you too!
I know that the union is full of corruption. But, it has provided for me my whole life, got me a college education and now a beautiful home. Our retirement is already looking good too!
Billy is considered upper management now and really shouldn't be in the union but he worked it out so that his employer still pays all of his benefits.
There are pros and cons to almost everything!
Eliza- You are right, never is a strong word. So how about instead of never, I should say, maybe someday, when there are no cats in America and streets are paved with cheese. I LOVE that movie!
Alright, honestly, who thought I would be finished posting? Congrats Chanel, I'm impressed with you. Most people wouldn't have said what you said, they would have simply withdrawn from the conversation to save face. I'm impressed. You are to be commended!!!Maybe we'll come down there for a meeting:) (I think that's the first time I've ever done that little gay smiley thing. I gotta quit this stuff.)
So, I must say, I obviously like Romney for reasons that go way beyond his faith, but I also must say I don't like that he is endorsing McCain. I understand why he pulled out earlier rather than later, besides to save money. It makes him look better for the future. And some people will like that he is endorsing McCain, but the more he does these things, the more he looks like a politician. Deep down I abhor the two party system because they are both filled with corruption. Oil companies, pharmaceuticals, insurance co's amid others are deep in the pockets of both parties (Why else would someone, or their party spend hundreds of millions of dollars to get a $450K dollar a year job? Go figure. Just so I don't get a lashing from Taylor, that is a little sarcastic, I think you get my point, though). Much more could be said here. I would truly love another WEALTHY independent (Like Perot) who can't be 'bought.' A few million to a billionaire aint gonna cut it (that is another whole long discussion also). Just wish Romney would stick to his guns and not get caught up in the game. I think in the long run he would come out better. I've been wrong on numerous occasions before, though.
Chanel, you should be alright. I would have to say 'Bama should be feeling very confidant right now, which I would welcome cuz that will get us to Romney's next campaign much quicker than if McCain won. Sorry to the die hard R's out there, but there is as much corruption on their side, they just share our core beliefs making them the lesser of two evils, in my opinion.
Bring on the heat, I know your wheels are turning.
I don't think that "my" issues are MORE favorite (they are favorite - shout out to Brian Regan) I've been just trying to say that they ARE important. I am not even as close to as knowledgeable about the issues and most of you, I'll sadly admit. I do know what I want for our Economy, Taxes, National Security, Iraq, Immigration ... but I can in no way talk like you Tay. You are one smart man.
AND I forgot to say to Chanel that I am tremendously impressed that you even shared that you had an "epiphany". Knowing me, I would have come up with something like, "yeah I can see your point". Seriously, honorable.
Nichole - I love that movie too. I seriously cried my eyes out to Somewhere Out There (Suki our cat had just died and it really struck a nerve... So funny now to think back).
You beat me to it! When I came to post Terry hadn't posted but it seems like we are impressed with Chanel.
At least Romney didn't say he is totally on board with McCain and still said he has disagreements with him but...sad to watch though.
Okay..it's me Tiff!!! Happy V-Day to ya'll and just curious if we can get these comments up to 100?
......Terry is SOOOOOO getting a blogsite! :) HAHAHAHAHAHAAH!
I hope Tiffany doesn't mind me posting since she doesn't know me, but I LOVE politics and a mutual friend thought I would enjoy reading everyone's thoughts. I know several of you by association:) I really have enjoyed reading all the comments! I have been amazed at how much everyone knows, and I was humbled by Chanel's comments.
I did just want to say that I have done quite a bit of research on Obama. I didn't set out to find everything wrong with him. It actually started with a desire to understand his differences with Hillary. Along the way I stumbled onto more information about abortion that I ever thought possible. I have posted some of the things that I learned on my blog out of concern that many LDS supporters are turning to Obama since Mitt left the race. If you would like to visit my blog and read about Obama, it is www.lefevrefam.blogspot.com Thanks!
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